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EL84 vs. 7189 vs 7189A

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Summer	EL84 vs. 7189 vs 7189A	Lead	[-]
Posts: 263 (03/20/05 10:00) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Tags : None I have a Magnatone M10 that uses 7189A's. I also have a pair of THD Yellowjackets that have been sitting in my tube box for some time that I want to try out in one of my SFDR's. So...the YJ's call for EL84's. Can I use 7189's and 7189A's in the YJ's with no harm? And can I use regular EL84's in my Maggie w/ no harm? Just trying to understand the definitive differences between these 3 closely related tubes. I'm ~guessing~ the difference is something akin to a 12AX7 and a 7025? Thanks!
Tremo	Re: EL84 vs. 7189 vs 7189A	#1	[-]
Posts: 4282 (03/20/05 14:41) No Hack Butchers ! Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	The closest thing to a 7189 in current production would be the Sovtek EL84M. Why use a YJ in a DR? 6V6s sound better than EL84s anyway. Tremo - Traditional Blues in the California Gold Country
Summer	Re: EL84 vs. 7189 vs 7189A	#2	[-]
Posts: 263 (03/20/05 18:38) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	*Quote:* Why use a YJ in a DR? 6V6s sound better than EL84s anyway . Just to try different things out. I bought them quite awhile ago and didn't really give them a good test run, I was doing other projects at the time and they sort of got bypassed/overlooked/stuck in the box. And I don't know about the 6V6/EL84 until I try them, my M-10 is one of my favorite medium-sized amps, it has great tone. And since my M-10 is a cathode-biased EL84 type of amp, I just wanted to see how close the DR would come in tone to it with the YJ's. Just having fun swapping stuff around...
SG123	Re: EL84 vs. 7189 vs 7189A	#3	[-]
Posts: 8470 (03/20/05 21:42) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	7189 has a higher plate voltage spec than an EL84, something like 400v. vs 300v. The 7189A is rated 440v. max. according to Duncan's site. It's normally not advisable to use an EL84 in an amplifier designed for a 7189. I have no idea what the Sovtek EL84M is rated. I don't think they publish their specs.
Clyde	Carmen Ghia Schematic	#4	[-]
Posts: 116 (03/23/05 10:43) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	IIRC, pinouts are different also.
SG123	Re: Pinouts	#5	[-]
Posts: 8470 (03/23/05 21:24) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	While they should be the same, There are numerous differences in the internal jumpering of elements, apparently. Here's some [ lengthy ] observations by an MB Setzer, as well as a final comment by another poster relating the pitfalls of the different connecting schemes: Variations in EL84 / 7189 Pinouts and Compatibility "In the GE book, 6BQ5 & 7189 share the same basing pinout: 9CV; 2 is grid 3 is internally jumped to both cathode & suppressor 4 & 5 are heaters (6.3Volts) 7 is plate 9 is screen 1, 6, & 8 show IC which is taken to stand for Internally Connected, which I understand means that the pin at least goes through the glass envelope and its metal is exposed to the high vacuum inside. Whether or not an IC pin actually connects to an internal electrode, and which one, does not seem to be universally required unless the basing diagram shows a connection to a particular electrode, 9CV does not, and 1, 6, & 8 show no guaranteed connection whatsoever. On my GE 6BQ5 tubes which would be assumed to correspond to their own handbook, everything is as I listed above, and also pins 1 & 2 are jumped internally. Pins 6 & 8 are there going through the glass, but have no electrical connection to each other or anything else inside. These GE tubes have 6BQ5 USA etched on the glass with the typical dot pattern below, in white writing there was added GE 6BQ5/EL84. The box also says 6BQ5/EL84. My RCA 6BQ5's are the same way, also RCA 7189, as well as recent Ei 6BQ5 from Yugoslavia. The Sovtek EL84 & EL84M do not have any connection to pin 1, so they actually follow the basing diagram more closely than the others. I do not have any true NOS European EL84's to compare, but it is considered the exact substitute for the traditional US 6BQ5. On my RCA's the 6BQ5 is applied within their typical octagon with USA above it, additionally painted on the glass is 6BQ5/EL84, the box has 6BQ5/EL84 as well. My 7189 tube is identified within the octagon with USA above it, indicating RCA manufacture, but this NOS one was relabeled and marketed by Raytheon with an apparently original box, except the box shows 7189A. This tube does not have pins 6 & 9 internally jumped though, see information below about actual 7189A. The Ei is only marked Yugoslavia 6BQ5 on the tube, but the box has EL84/6BQ5. The Sovteks are visibly different from each other, supposedly made in different plants, the standard tube has EL84/6BQ5 on the glass, the box only EL84. The Sovtek EL84M is painted only that way on the glass with Made in Russia shown in English, there are additional Russian designations including what is likely their tube number, 6Pi14Pi-EP, with Pi representing the single cyrillic character equivalent to the greek letter Pi. This tube appears to have a date code of 9108, from 1991. Both Sovteks have the thin shiny pins these are known for. In the GE book, the 7189A has a different basing all its own: 9LE; Same as above for the most part: 2 is grid 3 is internally jumped to both cathode & suppressor 4 & 5 are heaters (6.3Volts) 7 is plate 9 is screen On this one the difference is it clearly shows an internal jumper between pins 1 & 2, but also it has pins 6 & 9 shown jumped internally as well. My only 7189A appears to be falsely labeled, it was marketed by Westinghouse in their notorious later violet box, on the tube is printed 7189A Westinghouse Made in Germany. It appears to be identical to the Sovtek EL84 except the pins are not the thin shiny ones like Sovteks have currently, but look more like traditional US NOS pins. It is electrically identical to the Sovtek EL84, and there is no implementation of the 7189A pinout specification. What this means is that if you use only pins 2, 3, 4, 5, 7, & 9 in an amp design, it will be pin-compatible with all of the above tubes. Of course it's up to each operator how hot you want to stress yours and with how high a voltage. Part2 If an amp calls for 7189A and doesn't work with 7189, 6BQ5, or EL84, I would expect that the designers were using pin 6 instead of pin 9 for their screen connection. This would be easy to correct, but maybe it was a stressful circuit and not intended to use commercial tubes. If 7189A doesn't work in a 6BQ5 or 7189 circuit, there could be the possibility that unused pins (1), 6, & 8 were utilized during assembly merely as utility soldering terminals (pin 1 would be really dumb apparently) for connections not intended to be made to the tube to begin with. This can easily be modified for broader substitution possibilities. There is also some possibility at one time that US 6BQ5's did not have an internal jumper between pins 1 & 2 either, but my specimens all are jumped. Additionally, there is available a Svetlana SV83 not claimed to be usable in an EL84 circuit, but according to their literature EL84 can be used in an SV83 CIRCUIT without modification. Only a jumper on the socket. I don't have one of these tubes, but from their technical literature I would suggest the above (2, 3, 4, 5, 7, & 9) wiring to the circuit. Adding an external jumper from the cathode pin 3 to their suppressor pin 6 would make it socket compatible with all tubes mentioned except a true 7189A. Their suppressor appears to be internally jumped to pin 1, another good reason to always avoid connecting pin 1 to anything when using any of these semi-compatible small power tubes. Lifting the connection from pin 6 would allow 7189A use when desired. The screen of SV83 has a lower voltage and wattage rating however, so that must be taken into consideration, otherwise the tube is similar and is reported to sound quite good. MBSetzer Progress is a continuing effort to make things as good as they used to be - - - Sam Ewing ----------------------------------------- Thanks to some posters for pointing out that EL84's may have different pin connections. I was using the tube diagram in The Ultimate Tone [ by Kevin OConnor ] for EL84's when wiring up the EL84's in my amp. This doesn't show the pin connection between pins 1 and 2 on NOS EL84's and Czech tubes. So seeing this empty pin I said hey, a terminal for connecting my 1 ohm cathode resistors to ground! bad idea since I was grounding G2 as a result; no wonder they wouldn't bias! To confuse matters even more, the amp worked fine when I used the Russian tubes, no pin 1&2 connection. Thanks for pointing this out guys, DB-------
Summer	Re: Pinouts	#6	[-]
Posts: 263 (04/03/05 19:35) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Thank you much SG for the info. Seems they are not a direct pop-n-swap, or at least sometimes. Bottom line is probably don't risk it and just stick with what you're supposed to use per application. MB Setzer is an Ampager, I see his name there pretty often.
cjleavitt		#7	[-]
Posts: 1 (10/25/08 09:51) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Hello, Gerald Weber (Kendrick Amplifiers) made a suggestion of using a 7189 in an "early" Fender Vibro King Reverb Circuit rather than the EL84/6BQ5 - due to the higher plate voltage cpacity of the 7189. I got two NOS RCA on eBay. The seller said they tested "OK". I tried each one in the Vibro King and I got a fair amount of hum (that wasn't there with the EL84) and there was NO Reverb output. The eBay seller was good enough to take them back and he said that when he got them back he put them into a Heathkit stereo amp - and they worked fine. It remains a mystery to both of us. Does anyone have any ideas? Much Thanks

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